Comments on: Emerging church: Builders & Doers vs. Whiners & Trolls

By: BON-Arne

BON-Arne — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:47:57 +0000

hey Johannes,
what I feel is that people in general are not doing to little. They do the wrong things. So this is a matter of concepts and theories. There are severeal “front lines” and people like Brian McLaren are working forward to dig up the soil in order to enable change.
So why polarize? What I long for is to see reconciliation between denominations happen.
To see people not doing their own thing but accepting one another on their different front lines. Wheter they work in the accademic community or doing the stuff on the ground level in cafes and bars .
I think we need to pay attention not to create another elite. We had enough of that kind of behaviour. We need communities that are able to do both: to work boldly for innovations and experiment and who are still able to cooperate in a humble way with other communities who are doing the more conventional stuff…

By: Karen Campbell

Karen Campbell — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:19:23 +0000

Johannes, I do like the way you think and share your struggle with how to help The Church while being church. I’ve spent most of my life teaching and have to admit that little transformation has resulted in all that travel and “good advice.” And yet, I still believe that we are most what God intended when we assist one another along the path. What you guys have at Kubik is something worth sharing. But taking time away to do the sharing is an incredible sacrifice. I wonder if there is a “karen” around there who God has shaped specifically to tell the story. I really don’t have any other function in the Kingdom but connecting and telling now and I’m thrilled I’ve found my place. Just wondering if there isn’t someone there who could be doing the same for you.

By: Administrator

Administrator — Sat, 08 Jul 2006 09:49:44 +0000

My main problem whit all the talkers is that they just don’t know what they are talking about. The whole emerging church scene is mainly a big blah. All the discussions are so abstract. I definitly see people who are called as teachers like my man Depone but the difference with him is that he is deeply rooted in our local community. He is actually living what he is teaching to the most parts and that is very rare.

By: Ben

Ben — Sat, 08 Jul 2006 08:02:34 +0000

I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. There is definately a tension between doing and talking. But I also think depone has a god point in the first column - it depends on who you are and how you’re built. Some are primarily activists, getting stuck in on the community level and building pioneering communitie, for them conversation and teaching about their church wil be a sacrifice.

Others are called to be teachers and talkers, so that the lessons learnt and the ground taken in one mission context can be shared. And ultimately that the body of christ can be built.

I wonder if one of the reason the “emergent” conversation is so strong is that some of the main voices started building their new forms of church and found that few people in their local church communities got it - so they went elsewhere and forged some of the networks.

Having said all that I admire your decision to focus primarily on your local mission and church.

By: Tom

Tom — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 07:59:46 +0000

Yeah, I know the feeling. Well said, thanks for saying it and thank you even more for living it.

By: tautoko blog - Johannes Kleske: Emerging church: Builders & Doers vs. Whiners & Trolls

Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:44:38 +0000

[…] Update: Als ich diesen Beitrag für mein englisches Blog geschrieben habe ist es etwas mehr geworden. Da der Post aber leider auch sehr gut ins deutsche Umfeld passt hier der Link. […]

By: Ben

Ben — Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:07:35 +0000

Well said brother!
That was right on target. Keep up the good work! I have been reading your blog every once in a while and found some interesting tidbits and thoughts in there.

Cheers!
Ben

By: [depone]

[depone] — Mon, 03 Jul 2006 15:37:58 +0000

I totally agree to this – only teaching, is not what it is about…

By: Administrator

Administrator — Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:45:02 +0000

Definitly. In reality this is not as black and white as I wrote it. I actually think that teaching could be helpful to recapitulate what you’re doing. The problem here is that I see too many people only teaching and not doing anymore.

By: [depone]

[depone] — Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:29:23 +0000

Interesting post Johannes,

I agree on the most part of what you are writing. But there is one thing which makes me think: you said that teaching what you are doing will stop the doing itself. For me it has to do with what kinda person you are. We are not all teachers and it is definately right that it is choice of time and energy. But for me it seems important to teach and talk about what we are doing. This has to be linked to doing it, yeah – but not in the either/or way…